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to tony blair, we're talking to democratic congressman xavier becerra, republican senator ron johnson from the state of wisconsin, also pat houston, whitney houston's sister-in-law and manager and jeopardy champion ken jennings written a new book. it's tuesday, december 4th, "starting point" begins right now. >>> welcome everybody, you're watching "starting point." we're honored this morning to have the former british prime minister tony blair with us as our guest. he's going to be weighing in as a number of topics. we're going to talk about the fiscal cliff, we're going to talk about the global economy. we're going to talk about the civil war in syria. we'll talk about the royal baby coming soon. first we want to get right to zoraida sambolin for an update on the day's top stories. >> soledad, the fiscal cliff debacle, with 28 days remaining before drastic tax hikes and spending cuts take effect, a republican spending plan has been rejected by the white house. brianna keilar is live from washington. what now, brianna? >> well, right now it's about the pressure building and the clock kicki
deep sbeer his own shortcomings as a father. ron foreign yeah on the pain and promise of personal journalism. i'm howard kurtz and this is "reliable sources." -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >>> the most memorable moment on sunday night football took place during halftime. the game aired one day after that shocking tragedy in which kansas city chief's linebacker javon belcher allegedly shot himself and hids girlfriend and nbc sforts caster bob costas decided to dough vote his talking to guns. his own feelings were quite clear. >> you want some actual perspective on this? well, a bit of it comes from the kansas city based righter jason wit lock with whom i do not always agree but today said it so well that we may as well quote or pair phrase from the end of his article. our current gun culture, wit lock wrote, ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy, but here, wrote jason wit lock, is what i believe. if javon belcher didn't possess a gun, he and kasandra perkins would both be alive today. >> gun control critics quickly declared war on cos
is not decimated. >> so joining us now are cnn contributor and democratic strategist lena cardona and ron barjean. is it me or does it appear that john mccain becomes more grumpy over time? he's like the neighbor, the guy when you put the ball in the neighbor's yard and he's like, hey, get out of my yard, kid. am i wrong with that? am i the only one who notices that, john? >> well, this is ron -- >> ron, i'm sorry. >> no, i think senator mccain makes some very good points about susan rice, and i think he's clearly frustrated about her comments that were made. i think he's frustrated about the fact she came to capitol hill and wasn't able to convince him nor lindsey graham or senator susan collins that she would be a good nominee to be secretary of state. so, you know, i think that's what you're hearing in his voice right now is a lot of frustration. >> i'm not only talking about this particular issue. we're going to get into the meat of that, but i'm talking about other issues, fiscal cliff and on and on and on. it just appears that way. lena, you heard some people talking about civil leaders wit
. then at 8:00 a.m. eastern, senator ron johnson and bob corker. president obama issued a warning on "meet the press." >> on midnight, december 31st, if congress doesn't act, then everybody's taxes go up. and for the average family, that could mean a loss of $2,000 in income. for the entire economy, that means consumers have a lot less money to make purchases, which means businesses are going to have a lot less customers, which means that they're less likely to hire and the whole economy could slow down at a time when the economy is starting to pick up. >> but after it was all said and done, leaders on the senate floor couldn't get anything done, at least not yet. >> there's no single issue that remains an impossible sticking point. the sticking point appears to be a willingness and interest or frankly the courage to close the deal. i want everyone to know, i'm willing to get this done, but i need a dance partner. >> this morning, we've been trying to come up with some counteroffice to my friend's proposal. we haven't been able to do that. i've had a number of conversations with the presid
, killed by admitted gunman george zimmerman. but unlike martin's parents, ron davis tells me he does not believe race played factor in his son's death. >> i don't think -- it just happened to be an african-american child and a non-african-american person that pulled the trigger. i think that's the only comparison. i don't think the reason is the same. i think the reason for this gentleman was strictly anger and having the availability of a weapon. >> so your focus is on these guns. >> yes. >> your t-shirt even. show us this. >> yes. it says "kill guns, not kids." so we have to kill these gun laws. law enforcement has been trained. their the only ones i feel that should have guns in public. >> reporter: police arrested dunn a day later at his home after he fled the scene. the shooting puts florida's controversial stand your ground laws back in the spotlight, a law ron davis is determined to change. >> i'm going to focus on getting the weapons out of the hands that people haven't been trained to use. >> and dunn's attorney says she's still deciding which defense she will use should the
, and republican strategist, ron bon john. some say the fact that we're not hearing much of washington is a good sign, and in this case, silence is golden. you guys agree? >> yeah, i definitely do. look, one of the things that we've got to realize here is that the more that this fight takes place in public, the less is being done behind closed doors, because everyone feels that they have to justify the public rhetoric. so i think that we have two silences going on. there's barack obama and john boehner working things out and the republicans realizing that they've got to find a way to negotiate. so silence is golden for christmas season. >> do you agree, ron bonjean? >> yes, i completely agree. i think that silence is best. and right now while they're figuring out how to put a deal together, i think the president softening his rhetoric in michigan on the issue yesterday was extremely helpful. you know, what we are still far apart, as far as we know, on entitlement reform, spending cuts, raising the rates, you know, we've been talking so much about raising taxes that we're not talking a lot about
, executive director of american values institute, and ron bonjean a guy who knows how things get handled in the house of representatives. he was former communications director to house speaker hastert. the house, ron, is saying look we sent spending bills over to the senate and they have languished. so it is their turn. is that a workable strategy? i mean are americans going to say okay, the house has done its job? >> well, here, if we don't get a deal, even a small deal i think that americans will blame washington in general. you know the president tried to blame republicans in over the weekend, you know, on a sunday talk show and i don't think that's the way voters see it. i think they will say, you know what? democrats, republicans you're not getting anything done. we elected, we reelected president obama because he wanted him to go on a path forward but it's not happening. you, and i think if the markets crash, it will scare a lot of people and i think and taxes will go up. i think they will point at both sides. a big problem for both parties. jon: alexis, harry truman had the famous
. thanks. joining us for a closer look at the fiscal cliff negotiations, ron johnson, a member of the appropriations and budget committees in the senate. thank you for taking a break from a busy time to visit with us. >> thank you. >> i want to get a response from the comments to the president. he said that g.o.p. can't take yes for an answer. is there an offer that would have been acceptable to the house or the senate g.o.p.? >> not that i am aware. people throw the numbers around, like there is a deal, $1 revenue for $3 spending cuts, i have never seen those deals. senator harry reid should have made sure the senate passed a budget, sometime in the past 3 years and that would be reconciled with the house and you would have a framework, you know, a budget resolution that the committee -- the appropriations committee, the house ways & means committee, senate finance committee, they would have the instructions to work on the difficult problems npublic. have a public debate. we are down now to the 59th minute of 11th hour here and have you a couple of elected officials and unelec
. but it also caused symptoms that mimicked schizophrenia. dr. ron burke has been developing it glix-13. >> we found it has a very nice antidepressant effect, lasts for several days after a single dose, and with no side effects will of schizophrenia at all. >> reporter: in one study, patients taking an experimental drug had a 40% improvement in symptoms compared to 24% on placebo. jim staples participated in the trial. >> my hope is that the trial drug will in time be the last one i'll ever have to take. i take the drug for the rest of my life, but it might be the last one i have to switch to. >> reporter: the drugs are still in trial, and even if they continue to show promise, f.d.a. approval is still three to five years away. >> pelley: thankses, doc. president obama conditions a christmas tradition begun by calvin coolidge when we continue. um become "i can"? talk to your doctor. orencia reduces many ra symptoms like pain, morning stiffness and progression of joint damage. it's helped new ra patients and those not helped enough by other treatments. do not take orencia with another biologic
policy and it is not. >> i do talk at ron paul a fair amount so i'll limit myself, but that's a strain ron paul captured this election cycle with republicans. they are sick of war just like the rest of america. >> the reason is that the lobby in washington is extremely powerful. we keep wondering why they still yield power, but that's ultimately the reason. they have extreme power in washington. it's the same reason gun control is so hard to get. there are powerful lobbies and the pro-israel lobby is one of them. >> chris, can i join in on one point here? >> yeah. >> we don't want to break the bank on this. the detractors of israel think the u.s. relationship is driven by the power of domestic politics. and israel's defenders on the other hand believe domestic politics is irrelevant. the u.s.'s relationship is driven primarily by value. and glenn should understand this, the pro-israeli lobby in the united states has a powerful voice, but it does not have a veto. and the farther away you get from capitol hill where, in essence in my judgment, there really is no genuine serious or honest
cannot ignore the american people on tax hikes. ron hine on why he says there is still no reason to panic on the cliff. our very own lou dobbs is not buying it. adam: our very own nicole petallides is on the new york stock exchange. where do we stand right now. right now the dow jones industrials are down nearly 60 points. the nasdaq composite is down three quarters of 1%. not a great day here. there are concerns about the fiscal cliff. we just have the deadline timeclock up again. we know that we have very accommodative fed's. let's take a look at some european markets. finance ministers have been discussing things including giving them more power. these are some of the things that they are looking at closely. we had seen europe really pushing some new recent highs. that is something that pushed us along in the last couple days. lori: a showdown in washington. sparring over a dead deal. it does not look like either party is ready to budge. where are we now, rich we are still in the middle of a work in progress. that could be a little bit of an understatement. democrats say they want a co
and she have ron and proctor and gamble. then home depot, goldman sachs, merck, coca-cola, macy's, yahoo, comcast, hi, current boss, marriott, at&t, it is not quite the entire fortune 500 but it's close. it is about to get closer. tomorrow there is a third meeting. the president speaking to another 100 or so ceos in washington. that makes three meetings with ceos in four weeks. this personal attention from the president has led to lots of positive statements from business leaders. for example, the head of marriott calling the president, quote, resoundingly reasonable. and yes, that is same marriott corporation that just put mitt romney back on the board of directors after his loss in the presidential election to that resoundingly reasonable president obama. mr. romney may have lost african-americans and latinos and women and young people and gay people and single people and independents and everybody in the country who makes $50,000 a year or less, but you know, mitt romney di as you wall street guys. when you look, fast forward to 2012, they all fled to become mitt romney's top contribu
constructive talks, i believe those are the quotes. i have with me, ron brown, cnn contributor. ron, it's not how it works in washington, the straight up-or-down vote. >> it hasn't for a long time. there are two separate things here. there's the filibuster in the senate. but the biggest obstacles is the hastert rule in the house. it has always been hard to see bill that a majority of house republicans would vote for that would be acceptable to president obama. so in many ways, i felt for really months, the only two choices were going over the cliff or abandoning that hastert rule and john boehner being willing to bring up a bill that could be passed by democratic votes, not passed by the majority of republicans. sounded a little more optimistic on the relative gauge we have than over the last couple of weeks. >> they're now running out of venues to discuss this. they discussed it at the white house. tried to get a deal between speaker boehner and president obama. now it's gone to the senate. harry reid and mitch mcconnell will try to work something out. after that, they have run out of
correspondent carl cap ron explains for us. >> the morning after failing to convince the party to support the fiscal cliff, john boehner said he is not worried that the setback could cost him his speakership. >> no, i'm not. >> while we have not been able to get vote to avert the tax increases, you don't think they weren't getting that on me. they were dealing with the perception that somebody might accuse them of raising taxes. >> republican candidate campaign against raising any income tax rates this year. so when two to four dozen fiscal conservatives held the line to say they would oppose the plan on rate hike last night, boehner knew it would be depeteed. >> victory for conservative principles because the leadership strayed from the principles. the proposal over the weekend that the speaker offered was $1 trillion tax increase. perhaps a year long extension of the raising of the debt ceiling. those are things that the republicans do not support. >> important show of support, house majority leader cantor appeared at boehner's side and the rank and file republicans are coming to the sp
reserve. >> if a government destroys the value of currency, it will destroy the middle class. >> ron paul railed against the federal reserve and got applaud from growing clouds. >> we don't have the money, run out of borrowing power and guess what they do? they start printing money. >> despite paul and others' criticism the fed acted more aggressively. doubling down on printing more money each month to keep interest rates low for the future. >> it's likely warranted through 2015. >> why are they doing it? go back to the national debt clock. remember, we were staring at it it early in series. the debt to gdp or gross domestic product ratio is at 102%. the highest since just after world war ii. that is with extremely and historically low interest rates. even at these rates, that interest will cost the u.s. more and more every year. $222 billion in interest payments on the debt this year. $570 billion by 2022. at current rates. >> this stuff is no joke. we have a big interest to keep the interest payments low. also, incidentally keeping interest payments low so we can, so that other parts of
afternoon golf with those guys. former president bill clinton, former dnc chair terry mccauliff and ron kerr. it's the president's third outing since winning reelection. only the second time ever, though, he has played golf with former president clinton. president obama has a full day today. >>> coming up, as another u.s. base comes under attack in afghanistan, we will look at what the war on terror will look like after american troops come home. >>> plus, there's the question of what to do with the several hundred detainees still locked up at guantanamo. we'll cover it all. the brain trust is here. they won't disappoint. they won't disappoint a whole lot. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. oh, sir. that is a customer. oh...sorry about that. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. fedex office. a new way to save on your prescriptions. it's the aarp medicarerx saver plus plan from unitedhealthcare. with this plan, you can get copays as low as a dollar through a preferred network pharmacy like walgreens -- where you'll find 8,000 convenient locations. best of all, this pl
slugger ron bloomberg bam the first d.h. to bat in a regular season game. c
was coming in. a few cars were coming in and i told my driver, ron, stop. let's ask the this guy how to get down to mississippi. he put the map out on the hood any of the flashlight. yes sir go down to this lighting get to this dateline and take highway 78 and you are going to get it. i get back in the jeep and one of those things hits you. i gave him a name of gerald. i did not know his name. i hope he reads this book or his grandchildren read the book and let him know. i went back to him and they said, gerald, look, we are just a bunch of yankee's from the north. i know you were navy and i'm army that you have got to help us out. yes, sir. i will show you again. no, don't show me. gerald, you you're coming with us. his eyes popped out and he said sir, i can do that. i will be awol. besides you are army and i maybe. gerald, the voice of my brother, just make a decision, get him t -- get into the jeep under orders of president kennedy. my driver was bigger than gerald and he was nudged into the back of my jeep. we raced back to the base and 140 vehicles ready to grab the gate and i had mixe
is in love with her. and ron brownstein of the national journal. not a big crush of jackson on you. sorry. >> that's all right. and hillary clinton, a formidable candidate. gingrich on "meet the press" said the gop wouldn't be able to compete if she was the nominee. here's what he said. >> if their competitor in '16 is hillary clinton, supported by bill clinton and presumably still relatively popular president barack obama, trying to win that will truly be the super bowl and the republican party today is incapable of competing at that level. >> that's a strong statement, but not entirely inaccurate. she will be a formidable candidate if the economy is improving and they get a budget deal. look, three times in a row, very rare, george bush, ronald reagan, last time it happened. nothing is given, but given the demog r demography, her appeal would be formidable. >> the republican party in four years, hopefully more competitive. governors getting their sfripz. marco rubbo and paul ryan, reframing the republican party. is it possible there could be a new republican party in four years? i certa
representative ron kirk is also on the mentioned list in terms of retiring. host: but none of those formally? guest: not official . host: has anybody said i'm sticking around? guest: that would be kind of unproforma but i think kathleen seebluss said she would like to stay because of the implementation of the health care law. no one announces that. they kind of get the word out there. there have been some talk about whether eric holder will retire but he told people he would like to stay for a year or certainly until september when we're likely to get a new f.b.i. director. host: if you're not leaving immediately at the end of the first term are you expected to stay for all four years of the second term or is there another dated where turnover occurs? guest: the way i understand it is if president obama has told people if they do stay he wants them to stay for at least a year because he doesn't want to spend all of his time filling these jobs. so the rule of thumb is if people are still in place at the end of january they'll probably stay for the entire year. host: we're taking your calls an
off all of these massive regulations that are being planned, and now we've come to what senator ron portman -- rob portman is calling the regulatory cliff. it's going to cost american taxpayers more money, hundreds of thousands of jobs. these things are all coming to roost right now, so we are in a situation where the regulatory machine is revving up, and barack obama is going to impose these new, six new regulations under the epa alone. just one of those, which is regulating particles in the air, 680,000 jobs are going to be lost if that regulation goes through. >> can i hold you, can i hold you to that? megyn: go ahead, simon. >> let's come back in six months, a year, 18 months, and you prove those 680,000 jobs were lost because of a regulation that may or may not be promulgated. >> we'll see if it happens. >> this is ridiculous scare tactics. >> it's not scare tactics, simon. >> many of these regulations are mandated by congressional law, and it's just the basic argument behind this that somehow this president wants big government in everybody's lives is not borne out by the fact
. our chief political analyst gloria borger was one of the moderators with ron brownstein. what struck you, someone that covered the campaign. you learned some stuff. >> i did. first of all, wolf, this is the first time a lot of people running the campaigns actually met each other face to face. they sat around a big sfar table and had to kind of look at each other and it is so hard on the losing side. you have spent years of your life. there's a picture of the table. you spent years of your life devoted to running a presidential campaign. and if you're the loser, it's really hard. so one of the questions i asked at this panel discussion was about the infamous 47% tape and in which mitt romney said that 47% of the people wouldn't vote for him, that they felt entitled. matt rhodes who ran his campaign answered that question and we only have audio so listen to what he said. >> and i remember speaking to him and, you know, there was a lot of negativity about our campaign as a whole, but he's a person that takes personal responsibility about it. and he would tell me, you know, to me, like,
on until january. host: good morning, ron. you are on the air. caller: we are not looking at the right thing. like the congressman and the lobbyist. they are not putting any skin in the game. they are not making sacrifices. look at what their pensions are or social security. why do we have a limit on rates -- this is too much money. how about we spend as much money as it makes. .ook at the money you'll save host: robert levinson? guest: the caller is right about the united states spending as much as the next 17 nations combined. many of our allies like france and england. the united states is a global power with global responsibilities. it is a real sense of debate. our budgets tends to come down after we fight wars. what is the appropriate role for the united states military in the world? maybe allies can take care of this and maybe we do not need to do. host: how much do we spend? guest: about $600 billion a year from year to year. it is hard to estimate countries like china because they are now pricing things the same way. they have large land forces and they are not deployed across
it was resolved when the ron reagan was elected. you read the biographies of the hostage-takers, they act like a cowboy. their release the hostages the moment he was sworn in. it's not that well-known, but the soviets were taken hostage at their embassy at the same time. the soviets threatened to bomb tehran. their hostages were let go. it's also important to note that the iran-iraq board came to an end when the u.s. mistakenly shot down an iranian civil airline. the iranians thought, well, the u.s. is going to get into this war no-holds-barred and the ayatollah made a speech. during the poisoned chalice. the cards were such that he had to simply take the best deal he could. that recommending they bond in iranian airline. on to say their is a lesson there. they backed down in the face of a credible threat of force. at the same time, if you were the iranians your thinking to yourself, well, what can i learn from the example of india and pakistan? they detonated a nuclear bombs. sanctions imposed on them for a while. a few years later there were lifted. the iranians, you think yourself, well, al
over the fiscal cliff have many tea party republicans like wisconsin senator ron johnson fuming. >> does speaker boehner speak for you? >> i don't know what he's doing behind closed doors, truthfully. nobody speaks for me, other than myself. >> reporter: but he told cnn, he won't filibuster a compromise that raises some taxes. >> we have to understand about our reality in some point in time, republicans have no power in this negotiation. there's only one person that can prevent taxes from being increased in the american public. it's the president. because without any action, without him being willing to sign a bill, taxes go up for every american. i don't want to see that happen. >> reporter: some conservatives who once had the power to say my way or the highway now realize the train has already left the station. some of these tea party republicans caution their new spirit of compromise largely depends on what the president proposes and a few of them remain convinced the president simply wants to take the country over the fiscal cliff, to gain the kind of leverage they used to h
the report to the philippines president. he was inspired by the work of ef ron pan of florida who was chosen cnn's 2009 hero of year for bringing education it to mani manila's street children through mobile push cart classrooms. he hopes to be an inspiration it to others. >> i'm representing the street children to give them hope. >> he's one special boy. you may remember one of the 2011 nominees for the children's peace prize, malala yousufzai for supporting educational rights. she's still recovering from that attack in a british hospital. >>> his film bringing the santa claus, the sandeman and easter bunny to life on the big screen. we're talk to the director of "the rise of the guardians." when you have diabetes... your doctor will say get smart about your weight. that's why there's glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes. [ "the odd couple" theme playing ] humans. even when we cross our "t"s and dot our "i"s, we still run
and let the shark-men feed sell the ponderosa to the japanese slap leather go on, ron just about to go myself turn the world into a tv show it is the same game wherever you go one big advertisement for the status quo as if you knew how the story ends as if you are not sitting in a room alone and there was somebody real at the end of the telephone somebody real just about to dial your number ♪ ♪ get all worked up go back to war tie that yellow ribbon a side of fries big mac falafel stormin' norman i used to love a parade big mac falafel just about to go myself ♪ [applause] "big mac falafel" in the code for the oversimplification of the arab world and the tendency of american foreign policy at the time to think that you could fix and watch with a hammer. yeah, so we did. we went on the road and in many ways had our faith in the american process and our country restored by meeting some wonderful, committed people, who really mean extremely well and have the future of this country in their hearts and minds. but we raised the better part of $10 million, and it ain't right, you know? i
and deductions as part of the so-called fiscal cliff. ron in indiana prepared -- indiana. caller: the first young fellow. the question that i wanted to ask. everybody is talking about raising taxes on the job creators and they will not create jobs. these bush tax cuts have been in place. how long will it take to see the job? host: what do you think of the deductions? you think they have been a part of the tax code lot of that americans cannot do without them? caller: some of them need to be part of the negotiations. middle class people, we cannot. forget them. but the average class, they get the big tax cut. -- the upper class, they get the big tax cut. the middle class does not hardly see these deductions. and especially those that give you these deductions, they give you loopholes. to curtis dubay to get a response to that. our caller was talking about if you have the means to hire someone that has the ability to look through the deductions you can get a much better break. is it fair? guest: if you do not have someone to show you how to do it, it can be hard to take them. but for the most part,
of the hands. you know congressman ron bar bour, who was congresswoman giffords' assistant and was wounded that day. he has had 20 years of experience working in the community. he understands the gun violence issue and thinks the only way to keep the high-performance magazines out of the hands of people with mental health challenges is to keep them out of the hands of every room. a lot, -- of everyone. i look forward to reading the full statement. chris murphy came out of the funeral and this is what he twisted. he comes out of the district of newtown. "walking out of another funeral, i was handed the nra transcript , the most revolting, tone-deaf statement i have ever seen. , walking out of another funeral, i was handed the emirate transcript, the most revolting, hit home-the statement i have ever seen -- the most revolting, tone-deaf statement i have ever seen." take you all very much. -- thank you all very much. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> president obama is going to be making a statement about the f
does not have land use restrictions. host: denver, colorado, ron. republican women. -- republican. caller: good morning. it seems like the community reinvestment act that was passed in 1975 more or less laid the foundation for the housing bubble as that was the beginning of the sub-prime. that evolves and was expanded upon. business took advantage of it. because of that we get the ball. the -- bubble. the cra is still on the books, and sub-prime loans are still being made. i was wondering, do you think a major part of the foundation was the community reinvestment act and ended should be eliminated? he called the community reinvestment act, i do not think it had as big or roll was people like to say. housing was already expensive in places like california and hawaii because of land use laws from the 1960's. second, if you look to the community reinvestment act, if you think that is the cause of the bubble, you have to explain why there was not a bubble in houston, raleigh, n.c., that winter? -- atlanta? it applied to those cities just as much as san francisco and miami, yet there w
. i think it was stolen by massive voter fraud in the swing states. they totally snub ron paul and lost all those potential votes. that's my opinion and i hope we get rid of boehner. host: if it's not boehner, who would be the leader you would look for the speaker of the house? caller: i'd want to here what rush limbaugh or grover nor quist would say about that. host: grover said earlier in the week they did not consider this plan b to allow tax rates to rise for those making a million or more. that the americans for tax reform did not consider that going against the tax pledge. let's go to democratic caller. go ahead. caller: good evening sir. i'm an american citizen. i'm young. i'm only 24 and i've been watching c-span over the past few months. avend basically i'm going to get into saying something that we as american citizens, yes we have freedom of speech. but we have no right to publicly dishonor the president or the speaker of the house, whether they be democrat or republican, it doesn't matter. you have no right. you give them their respect and that's it. what i also wan
Search Results 0 to 35 of about 36 (some duplicates have been removed)